šāāļøFulfillment, Full Stop
š A conversation with my cousin.
š§ Rebuilding Our Reward System
My cousin Nick ā a freshman at Middlebury ā called me recently with a question he was exploring for his behavioral economics class: What does fulfillment actually look like?
Instead of writing a traditional paper, he wanted to have a real conversation about it.
He told me he was looking for someone whoās spent time exploring both the science and the lived experience of happiness ā not just in theory, but in practice. Someone whoās wrestled with the same questions heās starting to ask. So he called me.
We talked for nearly an hour ā about happiness, dopamine, distraction, attention, and the quiet power of human connection.
Iām sharing our conversation here not because I have answers, but because the questions themselves feel essential. Especially now.
Below is Nickās write-up, followed by the full transcript of our conversation. All quotes and language are exactly as he wrote them ā Iāve simply formatted things for clarity and flow.
I hope it resonates.
ā
āļø Write-up by Nicholas Christoforakis:
Natalie Chernysh, a neuroscientist and mindfulness practitioner, has spent years studying the biology and philosophy of happiness.
A graduate of the Brown University neuroscience program, Chernysh combines scientific curiosity and knowledge with a deeply involved personal practice of meditation and contemplation. Growing up as a competitive swimmer, musician, and student, she learned early on how the mind shapes performance; an insight that later drew her toward exploring the mechanisms of well-being at the molecular level and beyond.
Now living in San Francisco and working in biotech, Natalie brings her dual perspective to modern and pressing questions about fulfillment. She believes that much of what society celebrates as āhappinessā is more aptly described as fleeting pleasure. True happiness, she argues, requires awareness, mindfulness, and the ability to delay gratification.
In our conversation, Natalie discussed how mindfulness, attention, and human connection can reshape the way we experience joy. She spoke about the neuroscience of reward, the difference between fleeting pleasure and gratifying purpose, and why she believes intentional presence of mind might be the most effective and radical act of happiness in the modern world.
This interview has been edited and/or condensed for clarity.
ā
šļø Interview Transcript
By Nicholas Christoforakis | October 2025
Nick: Hi, Natalie. Iād like to start by getting some background on you, your education, and any other experiences, and how that pertains to our discussion today on wellbeing.
Natalie: Yeah, of course. Iām Natalie Chernysh. Iām from West Hartford, Connecticut, and growing up, I was a competitive athlete. That taught me early on just how much our brain and our mind influence our physical performance, and thatās ultimately what led me to study neuroscience at Brown University, where I graduated from in May 2024.
Being a neuroscientist, I was always fascinated by questions of mechanism. So going down to the molecular level, what actually goes on in the brain. But I was also interested in the psychology side of the brain, where you go beyond the molecular reductionism. And I really got to learn more about psychology through my own journey with mindfulness and meditation over the last five years.
Nick: Cool. So, letās get into this a bit. You mentioned, joy, gratitude, happiness. When you think about happiness, what does that mean to you specifically?
Natalie: Itās a definition that has changed for me over the years. Iām 23 years old. Iām overlooking this beautiful San Francisco skyline as I give this interview. That is happiness, for me right now; present awareness and gratitude for the moment before me. I used to think that happiness meant a lot of extrinsic goals fulfilled, like some championship qualification time in the pool, or some accolade in school. But Iām definitely more on the intrinsic fostering of happiness nowadays.
Nick: Can you tell me a little bit more about your sense and methodology for fostering happiness in people around you?
Natalie: Some of the oldest studies on happiness have really focused on our relationships with people. The longest Harvard study demonstrated that no other factor was as imperative in producing āhappinessā as our relationships with other people.
I think that, increasingly in our age of hyper-connectivity and in this attention economy, where weāre constantly drawn to our phones, itās really hard for people to feel like youāre actually fucking listening.
Nick: I think thatās a good segue into one of our other questions here, which is how has your sense of happiness or fulfillment shifted over time?
Natalie: I think as a kid, my life was really structured. Between school, rehearsals, and swim, I was at school for 12+ hours. I put a lot of pressure on myself to excel in the classroom, and I thought that my worth was tied to my grades and teachersā recognition of me.
When I came to university, there was a lot more autonomy. Therefore the onus is on you to cultivate schedule, and also to cultivate a sense of whatās important. It was a complete inflection point for me, because I had to reevaluate my sense of what Iām actually doing this for.
I think the answer has increasingly converged on āme.ā I am doing this for me, and I never thought about it like that before, but I became much more responsible and agentic: I was in control of my happiness and how I interpreted situations. In not being a slave to my emotions and being in control of how I react, I believe that I can cultivate happiness more readily. At the end of the day, you decide how you feel, you decide on your suffering, and on the happier side of that, you decide on your enjoyment of life.
Nick: Do you, living for yourself and being happy for your own fulfillment, think societyās version of happiness and fulfillment lines up with what actually makes somebody personally fulfilled?
Natalie: The short answer is no. Thatās what we see in an increasingly materialistic world, a world thatās increasingly drawn to quick hits of pleasure. This is when Iād like to bring up the distinction between pleasure and happiness, because pleasure is much more acute and easy to attain. Pleasure is good food, good sex, good substances: something that gives you instant gratification that you didnāt have to do much work for.
On the other side of that coin is happiness. Happiness is when you put in a little bit of work to actually sit in a moment. At any time, we can just decide to pull out our phone and go down a rabbit hole. Itās actually much harder to be immersed in reality because thatās less sexy, less pleasure-inducing, and therefore itās harder to get there. But when you get there, thereās a greater sense of fulfillment.
So, to get back to your original question of whether societyās version of happiness and fulfillment aligns with my own ā it doesnāt. I have always believed and will always continue to believe in this difference between pleasure and happiness, and an addendum to that, that we need to take steps every single day to protect and continue to cultivate our happiness.
For me, that looks like mindfulness, that looks like meditation ā literally sitting my ass down for 15 minutes and just being in silence with my thoughts, which is completely counter to societyās definition of productivity and production. Iām not attaining anything, except for this intrinsic gold, which, in my opinion, is worth more than any of that.
Nick: To your point about instant gratification ā from a neuro perspective, what do we know about the mechanisms behind that?
Natalie: Letās talk about dopamine. Itās this neurochemical in our brain that sits in our reward pathway. It can be depleted very quickly. If you start your day by scrolling on TikTok right after you wake up, itās being flushed out of your system because youāre getting a quick hit. The quicker the hit, the faster the depletion of dopamine. That makes it really hard later in the day to sit down and do your work, to read a book, to give anything focused attention. Not only is dopamine the chemical of gratification, itās also the chemical essential to doing hard things, which is why, when we deplete it, we set ourselves up for failure later in the day when we have tasks to accomplish.
A couple other neurotransmitters related to happiness are norepinephrine and serotonin. Norepinephrine is essentially adrenaline, it puts you into a heightened state of awareness; related to happiness because it literally puts you into this moment more. Then, serotonin. Itās the target of the antidepressant and anti-anxiety selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRIs) medications. Serotonin is a fascinating neurotransmitter because itās so ubiquitous in what it accomplishes. Itās involved in sleep, satiety, but itās most associated with happiness.
Nick: You said that dopamine runs out ā how does it regenerate, and how long does it take?
Natalie: Itās a good question. It does run out, and it takes around 24 hours to regenerate. If you want to cite someone who knows a lot about dopamine exhaustion, Dr. Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist at Stanford, frequently talks about dopamine depletion and how it makes it harder to do hard things later in the day. You can build your dopamine storage by doing things that have delayed gratification ā like going on a long run, forcing yourself to do that even when youāre tired or itās foggy outside. Doing something hard like that and seeing the end result through has been shown to increase levels of dopamine in the brain.
Nick: I think weāre nearing the end of the interview but Iāve got one more question.
Weāve got what Iād call a well-being crisis. People are wealthier than ever, life expectancy is up, incomes are up ā but people are unfulfilled. If you could give a few pieces of advice, or even implement a policy, to solve this fulfillment crisis, how would you encourage people to rethink their approach?
Natalie: Youāre absolutely correct, we have a purpose problem. Never in history have we had this abundance of resources ā to do, eat, and experience whatever we want ā and itās clearly not solving the problem.
But Iāll return to a core thesis of mine: it all starts upstream. We should be teaching mindfulness meditation in elementary school all the way up to 12th grade and university; with the rigor of mathematics, English, or any other core curriculum.
Children are the most amenable to new ideas and change, which is why education is so pivotal at an early age. But what if youāre not a kid anymore?
I think we should all strive to maximize the number of radically vulnerable conversations we have with people around us. Our relationships are so fundamental. Itās not just scrolling on our phones while we sit together and donāt interact. Itās actually understanding who this person is, where they come from, their context of life, what they care about, and resonating with it.
That resonance comes from the exchange of our true selves. If thereās anything I can push young people to do ā and this is something I strive for in my writing every day ā itās to build relationships on the foundation of vulnerability. If we canāt educate (or if it takes a long time to educate) the younger generations, then letās start with ourselves. Letās start with our closest friend. Letās start with our family members. See how much intentional gratitude, vulnerability, and presence can transform our ability to exist happily in a world thatās made it increasingly difficult to do so.
Nick: Thank you for that. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about this with me.
Natalie: Thanks, Nick. I appreciate the opportunity.
šæ Final Thought
In speaking with Natalie, itās clear that her idea of happiness isnāt about comfort or ease; rather it centers on awareness, attention and patience. In a culture obsessed with the constant stimulation of the next notification, her reminder feels both timelessly old and urgently new:
Fulfillment isnāt found in a constant more, but in making a conscious effort to notice and appreciate whatās already here.
ā Nicholas Christoforakis
š YOUR TURN
How has your definition of happiness shifted over time?
Whatās something that brings you fulfillment ā quietly, consistently?
Shoot me a text (860-205-2236) or drop a comment. Iād love to hear.
š Natalie
This oneās from last year ā a family gathering that, like most of ours, ended in music. Nick and I sight-reading a sax duet, because of course we did.


I'm Nick's first year seminar leader, Natalie. Thanks for participating, and for spreading the word. It's a wonderful interview. Peter.